Lobbying for a Faithful: Event Transcript

Your ads will be inserted here by

AdSense Now! Pro.

Please go to the plugin admin page to paste your ad code.

On Nov. 21, 2011, a Pew Research
Center’s Forum on Religion Public Life expelled a investigate that attempted to
provide a endless demeanour during Washington-based eremite advocacy groups. The
study examines a groups’ faith traditions, organizational structures, tax
status, annual expenditures, emanate agendas and primary strategies. It also
includes a brief story of eremite advocacy in a nation’s capital.

At an eventuality for reporters on the
day of a release, lead researcher Allen D. Hertzke, a highbrow of political
science during a University of Oklahoma and author of a 1988 book “Representing
God in Washington,” supposing an overview of a Pew Forum investigate and discussed
the categorical findings. Then panelists Maggie Gallagher of a National Organization
for Marriage, Rabbi David Saperstein of a Religious Action Center of Reform
Judaism and Rajdeep Singh of The Sikh Coalition discussed their firsthand
experiences advocating on seductiveness of eremite constituencies and religion-related
issues in Washington.

Note: The sum cited in this
transcript are from a Nov 2011 Pew Forum news on eremite advocacy
groups in Washington. On May 15, 2012, a Pew Forum published an updated version
of a report. Five groups were combined to a investigate and one was removed, raising
the sum series of advocacy groups in a investigate from 212 to 216. Changing the
number of groups in a investigate meant a Pew Forum had to recalculate many of
the statistical findings. In many cases, a sum and percentages did not
change by much, nonetheless readers should be wakeful that some of a statistics mentioned
in a twin competence be somewhat conflicting from those in a revised report. In
a few cases, annual advocacy expenditures sum were updated as well. For
more information on a revisions and given a Pew Forum finished them, see Note for Revised Edition.

Allen D. Hertzke, Presidential Professor of Political
Science, University of Oklahoma

Maggie Gallagher, Co-founder, National Organization for
Rabbi David Saperstein, Director, Religious Action Center of
Reform Judaism
Rajdeep Singh, Director of Law and Policy, Sikh Coalition

Alan Cooperman,
Associate Director for Research, Pew Forum on Religion Public Life

Navigate This Transcript: 

  • Defining Religious Advocacy
  • Dramatic Growth of Religious Advocacy Groups
  • The Increasing Diversity of Religious Groups
  • Impact of Recession on Advocacy Spending
  • Breadth of a Issue Agenda
  • Influence of Religious Advocacy Groups Today
  • Where Advocacy Money is Spent
  • Eschewing Involvement in Elections
  • Working for Sikh Civil Rights

:  Thank you
all very, unequivocally many for coming. I’m Alan Cooperman. I’m a associate director
for investigate here during a Pew Forum on Religion Public Life. We know it’s
a brief week – a Thanksgiving week – and everybody’s busy, so we are very
grateful that we took a time to come. There are people on a telephone,
some reporters from around a nation listening in, and we’re beholden that
they’ve assimilated us, too.

The Pew Forum on Religion Public
Life is a plan of a Pew Research Center which, as many of we know, is a
nonpartisan classification that does not take positions on open routine issues. Today
we’re releasing a formula of a new report,
“Lobbying for a Faithful: Religious Advocacy Groups in Washington, D.C.”

With us is Professor Allen Hertzke
of a University of Oklahoma. Allen was a principal researcher on this
study. He was a comparison visiting associate here during a Pew Forum in 2008-2009, when
he did many of a scoop work for a study. We’re also happy to have here
representatives from 3 organizations who have firsthand trust lobbying
or advocating on seductiveness of eremite constituencies or on religion-related
issues here in Washington.

You have copies of their biographies
in front of you, so we won’t go into fact on that. we wish we to know, of
course, that they are here to yield context to a news and to provide
their possess assessments, and they are unconditionally eccentric in their views.

Maggie Gallagher is a co-founder
of a National
Organization for Marriage
. She has advocated conflicting same-sex matrimony – for
traditional matrimony – in open debates and as a syndicated columnist for more
than a decade.

Rabbi David Saperstein is the
director and warn during a Religious
Action Center of Reform Judaism
. It says here, David, and we wish this isn’t
a typo, that you’ve been during a core for 3 decades. we have to suspect
that means we started right after your bar mitzvah. we find 3 decades very
hard to believe. But I’m told you’ve been during a RAC for 3 decades,
advocating before Congress and a executive hook on a far-reaching accumulation of issues
of regard to a Reform Jewish transformation in a United States.

And Rajdeep Singh is a executive of
law and routine during a Sikh
, a largest Sikh polite rights organisation in a United States.

A discerning word on a format here. Allen
Hertzke is going to plead some of a categorical commentary of a report. Then I’ll pose
a doubt or dual to a panel. And thereafter we’ll entice a rest of we and those
participating by write to attend as well.

Before we spin things over to Allen,
I customarily wish to discuss unequivocally fast a few other things. On a list in front
of you, in a information packet, you’ll find some profiles of the
presidential candidates. These are profiles of their eremite journeys, if you
will. They were put together by a Pew Forum mostly from media reports and
are full of links to media reports. You’ll find these on a sacrament and
politics website.

I wish you’ll find them useful and
that you’ll go to a website. We will keep that website full of a latest
news and investigate per sacrament and politics in a 2012 campaign. For
example, in a subsequent 48 hours we will have a formula of a new poll
on sacrament and politics and a campaign, utterly how several religious
groups are entrance a discuss and a impact of Mitt Romney’s Mormonism. So
stay tuned for that.

Finally, we should indicate out that
this eventuality is on a record. We will have a twin of it. And a duplicate of the
transcript will be posted on a website. Thank
you unequivocally much. Allen Hertzke, over to you.

:  Let me customarily contend what a great
honor it’s been to work for a Pew Forum on Religion Public Life. There
is no classification like it that has such strictness and objectivity. we wish to offer
a shout-out to a Pew investigate team, generally to Hilary Ramp and Tracy
Miller. we consider Amanda Nover and Elizabeth Lawton competence be listening in. But
these researchers have customarily finished an implausible pursuit in aggregation this tremendous
database that we consider will be tremendously valuable.

Before we get into some of a major
findings of a report, we wish to offer a critique on a highlight of this
study as a academician of sacrament and open life. Personally, we was actually
surprised by a series of groups – 212 – by their distance and budgets – over $390
million – their outrageous diversity, and a border of a emanate bulletin – about 300
issues addressed. So even nonetheless I’ve been shower and poking in this universe for
two decades now, we was unequivocally struck by a commentary of this study.

I consider a enlargement of religious
advocacy here in Washington, D.C., and around a nation says something about
the sociology of sacrament in America, about a open character. That
religious groups feel a need to have a Washington office, we think, says
something about how they viewpoint a significance of carrying that bureau to signify
their place during a county list of America. we consider a open impression of
religion in America is illustrated.

I would inspire we all to go
through a profiles of a several groups in a database – we have
profiles of all 212 groups – and their thought statements. If we review their
mission statements, we unequivocally get a clarity of a endless farrago and
breadth of a groups, nonetheless also how they bond their eremite values to
their open routine concerns.

I consider another thing that’s
interesting is that a groups see themselves as representing others, by and large.
There are some exceptions or some self-interested kinds of concerns, obviously,
for all of a groups. But that’s where a denunciation of advocacy comes in. Religious
leaders mostly don’t news themselves as lobbyists; they news themselves
as advocates. And in many cases they see themselves as advocates, both during home
and abroad, for what they would news as a least, a lost, a left out,
so forth.

Another thing that we consider makes
this potentially poignant is that eremite advocacy collectively
potentially represents many adults and institutions both during home and around
the world. Religious institutions have endless on-the-ground networks in
charity, development, educational institutions, health caring institutions and so
forth, that mostly yield routine information to policymakers in Washington. Religious
groups are woven into a routine process. Both Presidents Bush and Obama have
created faith-based councils. You see eremite groups during congressional
hearings, during a White House. You also see them involved, really, in very
specific – what I’d call a routine weeds.

As we was looking by the
interviews that we did, we beheld that groups were endangered in – here are customarily a
few of a issues: AIDS appropriation in Africa, second probability for ex-offenders,
tobacco regulation, food security, warranted income taxation refundability, supports for internally
displaced people in Columbia, anathema on cluster explosve exports, anathema on therapeutic
cloning, a dismissal of a anathema on imperative screening of anyone wearing a
headscarf, post-Katrina assist to eremite schools, a resettlement of a Karen
people of Burma. You name it, eremite groups have been involved, it seems.

While we in a investigate do not make an
effort – and, in fact, it would be over a operation of this investigate – to try to
assess routine change or grade of change of conflicting groups, my past
research, utterly in a book “Freeing God’s Children,” showed that
religious groups collectively in bloc did have an impact on international
religious leisure legislation, trafficking legislation, Sudan assent legislation
and ubiquitous debt relief. So we do see a probability that this
collective work can have an impact.

Finally, we would customarily contend that the
database itself, that we would unequivocally titillate we to demeanour at, is a good apparatus for
scholars, students and reporters given it provides information on all of
these groups – a issues that they’re endangered about, their missions,
budgets, taxation standing and so forth. In sum, eremite advocacy is now a permanent
and sizeable underline of a Washington scene.

One of a hurdles was defining
religious advocacy, so we wish to spend a tiny time on this. Groups are
included in this investigate if they contend a permanent bureau in a Washington,
D.C., area. So we actually, in a sense, blink eremite advocacy
because there are some vast groups that don’t have an bureau here that do in
fact pattern citizens, rivet in advocacy, come to Washington and so forth.

We also embody groups if they are
religiously dependent or defined, that’s obvious, nonetheless also if they’re engaged
in religion-related advocacy. we wish to highlight that some of a groups included
in this investigate would substantially tell we they are not eremite lobbies or
religious advocacy groups, nonetheless they are intent in religion-related advocacy or
they have estimable eremite constituencies.

Advocacy in this investigate is tangible broadly.
We embody not customarily lobbying as tangible by a IRS – that is customarily legislative
lobbying or lobbying for referenda – nonetheless also other efforts to change public
policy during a White House, executive agencies and so forth. We also demeanour at
organizations that use lawsuit as a plan of inhabitant policymaking. And
finally, we demeanour during groups that do preparation or mobilization of constituencies or
the ubiquitous open on sold issues.

In other words, we don’t customarily look
at lobbying narrowly defined; we looked broadly during how groups are attempting to
influence open policy. As we note, a Pew Forum database includes 212 such
groups. We don’t explain to have gotten all of them. When a news is released,
I’m certain we’ll hear from some groups that wish to be included.

The list in a news on tax
status indeed illustrates a extended construction of eremite advocacy because,
as you’ll notice, many of a groups are tax-exempt nonprofits – 501(c)(3)
groups. Such groups are prevented from devoting a estimable bid to actual
lobbying as tangible by a IRS. But they are not prevented from education, providing
information to their electorate on routine issues, mobilizing their constituents,
informing members of Congress about their concerns, testifying and so forth.

Some of a groups, in fact, are purebred lobbies and have 501(c)(4)
status. Among a some-more enchanting or vicious examples would be Bread
for a World
, that calls itself a Christian craving lobby, and they
embrace a “lobby” term. But those 82% of a groups [that have 501(c)(3)
status] would not news themselves as lobbies or lobbyists. They would say
they’re advocates or advocacy organizations.

But Bread for a World describes
itself as a lobby. NETWORK,
the on-going nuns group, describes itself as a amicable probity run in a Catholic
tradition. The Friends
Committee on National Legislation
calls itself a Quaker run in a public
interest. So there are groups that are purebred lobbies that, in fact, can do
things that a 501(c)(3)s cannot.

A draft in a news shows the
rather thespian enlargement given a 1970s of eremite advocacy groups in
Washington, D.C. The early decades on this list paint a partial of a report
that we would titillate we to take a demeanour at. It is a chronological overview.

In a news we yield a kind of
historical overview of when inhabitant advocacy becomes a permanent partial of the
Washington theatre – when groups arise a Washington office. The commencement we’ve
been means to establish is around a 1870s and thereafter 1890s, with some of the
temperance groups that indeed grown Washington offices. Then we draft the
Progressive era, with a Catholics, a Methodists and Jewish groups setting
up permanent offices in Washington. Then during World War II and a aftermath
you get a series of a mainline Protestant groups, other Jewish groups and
also some physical groups.

But thereafter what we note is that
religious advocacy unequivocally seems to take off from 1970 onward. We have more
groups any decade than a prior decade. Scholars have voiced a number
of explanations for this – one probable reason is a enlargement and distance of the
reach of a sovereign government. José Casanova during Georgetown has suggested that
global pushback conflicting secularizing trends was a tellurian materialisation from the
1970s onward. Ronald Ingelhardt has suggested value-based concerns are drawing
religious groups in. we had suggested in other work that immigration and the
growing pluralism of a American eremite landscape have brought some-more groups
to a county table.

Finally, globalization and a huge
American footprint around a universe have drawn groups to Washington who wish to
influence American unfamiliar routine on seductiveness of their counterparts around the
world. This is arrange of self-perpetuating and reinforcing.

A draft in a news provides a
breakdown by eremite affiliation. As we would expect, a vast series of
groups go to a extended Christian family. We have there, as we can see, Catholic
groups, about 19%; evangelical, 18%; Jewish groups are well-represented; Muslim
groups are indeed well-represented as well. This was a vicious finding, I
think, of a investigate – a enlargement of a series of Muslim organizations with
offices in Washington, D.C.

And while a series of groups
representing eremite minorities looks small, we would highlight a significance of
the flourishing pluralism – Hindus, Buddhists, Baha’is, Sikhs, Scientologists are
represented in this [trend]. Also, a tiny assent churches – Mennonites and
Quakers. We have physical groups like a Secular
Coalition for America
and a American
Humanist Association
, that we tangible as intent in religion-related lobbying,
and a accumulation of other Christian organizations.

But a largest difficulty is
interreligious, in other words, emanate or ideologically endangered groups that
are cross-religious in nature. In fact, we would advise that Maggie Gallagher,
with National Organization for Marriage, represents one such interreligious
group that focuses on a singular emanate regard with lots of conflicting members.

What we find in a study, initial of
all, is a flourishing pluralism and farrago of eremite organizations by
religion. But we also find a good farrago by organizational structure and

Notice we have organizations that
represent individuals. Rajdeep Singh with a Sikh Coalition would be an
example of someone representing sold contributors or members. But we also
have a vast series of groups that paint eremite institutions, in other
words, a vast ubiquitous service and enlargement organizations, schools,
hospitals, colleges, charities and so forth. These institutions strech millions
of people around a universe and during home.

A series paint eremite bodies
or are a central member of eremite denominations or traditions. Rabbi
David Saperstein is an instance of someone representing an central religious
body – Reform Judaism – in America. The United
States Conference of Catholic Bishops
represents a Catholic Church, and
so forth.

We also note permanent coalitions. There
are lots of coalitions that form and lessen and flow. But there are some permanent
coalitions that form and arise their possess eccentric structure. We also find
that there are a series of consider tanks attempting to change a policy
debate from several eremite perspectives. Finally, there are some hybrid
groups that don’t heed to any one of those categories and seem to brew them
in enchanting ways. The Becket
Fund for Religious Liberty
calls itself “a consider tank with teeth” because
it also does lawsuit in serve to research.

One of a some-more vicious commentary of
our investigate endangered a tangible annual expenditures by, collectively, the
religious groups and by specific eremite organizations. We were means to get
the budgets by open papers of about 131 of a 212 groups. For some
of a groups, we could not get budgets given their Washington bureau or
their advocacy module wasn’t alone saved and we could not establish the
funding of a advocacy program. A series of a organizations in this study
are hosted by primogenitor organizations, and we customarily could not get specific budgets.

But we did establish that the
funding for 131 groups was over $390 million a year. The median is about a
million dollars a year. These check sum simulate a extended difficulty of
advocacy. In other words, we don’t exclusively demeanour during customarily expenditures for
lobbying narrowly defined. We demeanour during expenditures that rivet a full range
of mobilizing open opinion, inspiring electorate and so heading around the

One final note, we have some tables
that uncover a impact of a retrogression in 2008 on eremite advocacy spending. Overall,
it did go down. For some groups it went adult – a National Organization for Marriage
had a vast boost in a check – nonetheless a series of organizations saw a
decline in their sum advocacy spending. The deputy for a Friends
Committee on National Legislation, a unequivocally distinguished Quaker run that has a own
building in Washington, mentioned that spending went down significantly because
of a recession, and they’re now building that behind up.

There are a handful of groups that had
above $10 million in annual advocacy expenditures – and we wish to contend a few
words about this. The methodology territory of this news has a detailed
description of a preference manners we used to establish advocacy budgets. I
can’t go into all a sum here, nonetheless we will contend that for many of a groups –
for example, American-Israel
Political Affairs Committee
, Family
Research Council
, Concerned
Women for America
, Bread for a World, National
Right to Life Committee
and a Home
School Legal Defense Association
– for a groups that are shaped in a Washington,
D.C., area and that do advocacy as their principal mission, we enclosed their
total budget.

Now, others could use other decision
rules, could use a some-more limiting definition. Bread for a World has both a
501(c)(3) and a 501(c)(4), nonetheless all of it is focused on craving issues, on
educating a open about a significance of craving and so forth. So we include
the sum budgets for those groups that do advocacy.

But there are some organizations
that are not shaped in Washington, D.C. – a American
Jewish Committee
is an example. There we looked during their annual news or their
Form 990 with a IRS. We looked for check categories that prisoner advocacy
spending, categories that competence not exclusively concentration on Washington, D.C., but
would radically constraint what they’re doing in terms of advocacy initiatives. We
found about $13 million from a American Jewish Committee was in the
categories of supervision and ubiquitous family and domestic policy. Once
again, we have a unequivocally pure news in a profiles of these groups. We
show how we got a check for any organisation and a preference sequence we used. So
others who wish to use a conflicting preference sequence can do so.

Finally, there are some groups that
aren’t shaped in Washington, D.C., and that have apart arrange of advocacy arms
but not exclusively focused on Washington. CitizenLink,
which is a Focus on a Family initiative, spends about $10 million. A good
part of that output is not for a Washington bureau nonetheless for a national
effort to pattern electorate around marriage, pro-life [issues] and so
forth. We appreciate that as contributing to their Washington-based advocacy
because it’s perplexing to figure open opinion, pattern literally millions of
citizens to write their members of Congress and so forth.

I would unequivocally advise that we look
in a news during a tip 40 list of advocacy expenditures given we consider that
actually captures something of a patterns that we see. Let me customarily discuss a
few that we would impersonate as patterns when we demeanour during a broader list. Among
the best-funded groups, we do find that groups focused on what they themselves
characterize as normal values are among a top-funded groups. Jewish
organizations are among a well-funded organizations, nonetheless eremite right or
Christian right opponents – self-expressed Christian right opponents – are also
relatively well-funded. And what we competence call a amicable probity cluster of
organizations also has estimable funding, between Bread for a World and Sojourners
and what a Catholic bishops do and so forth.

So collectively these budgets
suggest a far-reaching farrago of expressions and interests and so forth. But we do
stress that budgets alone do not indispensably establish impact on any given
issue. But this is a vicious underline of eremite life in America, that
religious organizations are spending these kinds of dollars on advocacy.

Now, one of a things that we found
fascinating myself is a border of a emanate agenda. We combed systematically
though webpages of these organizations, and we found, after we did a detailed
listing, that they residence about 300 conflicting issues, specific issues. You see
in a relapse between domestic and ubiquitous that it’s roughly even. In
other words, customarily somewhat some-more groups concentration on domestic issues exclusively
versus international. And most, 64%, of a groups concentration on both domestic and
international issues.

If we demeanour during domestic issues, you
get a clarity of both a series of groups that concentration on a sold issue. We’re
not mindful here possibly this is a many vicious issue. We’re customarily looking at
whether they focused on these issues. Obviously, many groups concentration on church-state
issues, polite rights, polite liberties, nonetheless thereafter we can go down and see the
breadth of a emanate bulletin for eremite organizations.

What we would indicate we to subsequent is
what we would impersonate as a globalization of advocacy. Not customarily are
international issues roughly equally vicious or distinguished among a religious
advocacy community, nonetheless a far-reaching operation of issues, from tellurian rights, poverty,
peace, inhabitant security, eremite freedom, appetite and a environment, and
now family issues are migrating to a U.N. and so forth.

One of a things that we found in
our news is a enlargement in a series of efforts on a ubiquitous theatre – not
just focused on American unfamiliar routine nonetheless lobbying during a United Nations, the
European Court, ubiquitous tribunals, lobbying other countries, doing
advocacy in other countries around a world. This is apropos a growing
feature of eremite advocacy, and we consider it’s an enchanting one. In fact,
some of a groups do roughly disdainful tellurian advocacy initiatives. The International
Justice Mission
, that works on probity issues around a world,
trafficking and labour and so heading – we didn’t embody their check because
most of that check is not even spent focused on American policy, foreign
policy or domestic. Some of it is.

Finally, we looked during advocacy
strategies, and we did a petition of a smaller series of a groups. Most
of these groups, once again, are 501(c)(3)s, construction they’re not registered
lobbyists, nonetheless they are attempting to surprise open opinion, constituents. They
sign bloc letters. They accommodate with policymakers and officials. They issue
news releases. They trigger email campaigns. They write routine papers. They
give testimony. And they even attend significantly in demonstrations. But
only a tiny series of groups in a illustration indeed furnish congressional
scorecards or support possibilities for elections. Those activities are restricted
to 501(c)(4) organizations; 501(c)(3) organizations can’t do that, and most
religious groups eschew that kind of activity.

One of a fascinating things to me
was a border to that we prisoner a use of new media strategies and
especially a amicable networking techniques as a approach to pattern constituents. Everybody
does email, nonetheless what we found is a series of groups – and this was reliable in
my interviews – had recently adopted Twitter or Facebook Causes and those kinds
of amicable networking collection as a approach to pattern their constituencies.

For example, a Friends Committee
on National Legislation mentioned that they – regulating arrange of viral techniques
with Twitter, Facebook, email and so heading – were means to pattern some-more people
on a woe emanate than we consider they pronounced there are Quakers in a United
States – or there are members, anyway. The lobbyist for NETWORK told me that
through a use of Twitter, she’s means to get real-time responses to
developments on a Hill. So if a member of Congress seems to be loath on
some issue, they can send a twitter and they can get evident response to that
member’s bureau from their electorate around a country.

The conduct of World
mentioned that they combined 100,000 new activists to their database
just by Facebook Causes. They were means to pattern that many some-more people.
So one of a things that we consider has happened is that these new technologies
are behaving as kind of an equalizer. When we did my investigate in a 1980s of
religious lobbying in Washington, customarily a few of a groups could unequivocally do mass
direct mail mobilization. Now all can do it, of one arrange or another. And
because of module record that many of a groups use, they can actually
record that basic responded to that emanate to that member of Congress’
office and when.

At any rate, to me as a academician of
faith and politics, sacrament in open life, we consider this investigate is striking,
and a database that is underlying a news – in other words, a news you
have sits on tip of a many incomparable database of profiles of a groups and so
forth. we consider this should be a good apparatus for students. I’m going to use it
all a time for my students in a classroom. Thanks unequivocally much.

COOPERMAN:  Allen, that was great. I’m going to use my
privilege for one clarification. Now, would we contend that a diminution in
spending that a investigate found from 2008 to 2009 is unconditionally and clearly the
result of a recession, or could there be other factors?

HERTZKE:  There are other factors. We note in the
report a good shake and turnover that exists in a eremite advocacy
community. Groups arise and fall. They come and go, and so it isn’t – we mean,
let me give we an example. In a 1990s, a Christian
was one of a top-funded groups. we consider they had a check of
$12 million in 1993, according to a investigate by Weber and Jones.

By a study, their check had
shrunk to a tiny over $600,000. So from a $12 million check to a $600,000
budget, that was not a outcome of a recession. It was a outcome of changes in
the environment. And so a retrogression clearly had an impact for some groups,
but it did not for others.

COOPERMAN:  Yeah. OK, let’s spin to a row now. Again,
using a tiny bit of payoff here, I’d like to ask a initial question. Allen
has lonesome during slightest in an overview what’s in a study, nonetheless we consider it’s
probably apparent to we all that there are some things that are not in the
study, and a investigate says so. One of a many vicious is that a investigate does
not try to consider a grade of change wielded possibly divided by any of
these organizations or collectively by a organizations as a whole.

The reason, we think, is that it’s
very formidable – maybe unfit even – to try to do that in an design and
quantitative way. Not customarily did a Pew Forum investigate not do it, nonetheless to a best
of my knowledge, no domestic scientist has come adult with a unequivocally clear-cut,
solid methodology for quantitatively measuring a grade of change of
various lobbies in Washington, D.C., notwithstanding decades of investigate in this area.

So let’s spin it over to a panel,
and I’d like to start in this area and ask possibly these folks who’ve been
working here on a belligerent doing this work have a sense. How would we compare
the change of eremite advocacy groups currently in a Obama administration
to, say, a few years ago underneath a George Bush administration? Maggie, do you
want to start us off?

:  Yes, OK. Well,
thank you, Alan and Allen. It’s customarily a good payoff to be here during Pew, which
has some of a many intelligent and innovative discussions of a change of
religion in open life. we feel that a doubt we customarily asked would
ordinarily be a evidence for me to smoke adult like a vast cat and gloat about the
influence of sacrament in politics. And maybe I’ll get to that in a second.

But we did wish to note, as we read
through this report, some of these organizations I’m not informed with during all. Others
of them we know intensely well, including my own. And we found myself asking
again and again, what depends as sacrament and what depends as advocacy? I’m sure
that we wrestled with these questions. In particular, if we take the
traditional position on life or marriage, we are in this news as a religious
advocacy [group], and what’s unequivocally distinguished to me is that a other side that we
are arguing with is flattering many absent. Let me put a happy matrimony emanate in – there
are a lot of eremite people arguing for tellurian rights. There’s also a rather
big and successful classification called a Human
Rights Campaign
(HRC), that advocates for same-sex marriage, among other
things, nonetheless it’s not counted as a religion-related advocacy organization.

COOPERMAN:  Actually, Maggie, it is.

GALLAGHER:  Oh, they are? Oh, I’m sorry. we missed them.

COOPERMAN:  They’re not in a tip 40 in spending, but
they’re in a study.

GALLAGHER:  Their check is $40 million, nonetheless you’re
separating out their lobbying?

COOPERMAN:  That’s a sum check for a Human Rights
Campaign, $40 million, nonetheless they do have a eremite advocacy component.

GALLAGHER:  OK. That explains it. Susan
B. Anthony List
, whose categorical thought is electing pro-life women to office, was
founded in response to Emily’s List, that has a accurate conflicting mission. It’s
not unequivocally a criticism. we do know that it’s a challenge, nonetheless we do think
it’s value mindful a kind of hypothesis of what depends as eremite and what
counts as advocacy given a organizations on this list indeed do really
rather conflicting kinds of things.

On a doubt of possibly religion
is a dwindling change in open life, we consider a quickest answer to that
question is to demeanour during a presidential competition on a Republican side. At this
point in 2008, Mitt Romney was arguably a many socially conservative
candidate in a race, until Mike Huckabee emerged suddenly in Iowa. Now
he’s counsel a relations amicable magnanimous compared to a other Republican
candidates, and there arrange of seems to be a competition to see who’s going to emerge
as a champion of amicable conservatives, religiously encouraged electorate on the
GOP side. we consider that’s a testimony to a continuing, ongoing change of
religion in open life. And what’s unequivocally singular in a American tradition is
that Americans are unequivocally not fearful of that involvement.

Another trend that we noted, which
NOM is a unequivocally good instance of, is that a good many of these socially
conservative organizations are indeed ecumenical, right? So plainly religious
influence in America tends to lead to some-more eremite comity, actually, as
different eremite groups work together on common interests, rather than, as
is mostly feared in Europe, heading to a finish that we have to exclude
religious change or it will lead to bad things.

The house of a National
Organization for Marriage contains Catholics, evangelicals and members of the
LDS church, and we could enlarge that bloc as well. We positively worked
very closely with Orthodox Jews in New York’s 9th congressional
district, where we played a purpose in assisting to elect Bob Turner. So customarily from
the incomparable standpoint, we do consider that it’s a ubiquitous trust of the
social conservatives that it has led not to a eremite fight nonetheless to transcending
sectarian bounds to a trust of operative together on issues of common
concern. we consider that is a singly American trust and approach of
understanding it.

In terms of possibly a change is
going to continue to grow, to me a many distinguished – I’ve never seen it
quantified. It is not news to me that customarily 7% of organizations that believe
they wish to change open routine are indeed intent in politics,
supporting or antagonistic candidates. we consider that there is indeed a vast
potential for enlargement of a change of socially regressive groups
because they have been relying for many, many years on 501(c)(3) strategies
alone to change open policy.

The good disproportion is a life
issue. A series of those groups are (c)(3) groups, nonetheless they are some-more involved
in approach domestic action. we consider a impact of that – in that there is no
longer a vicious suspicion that we can run for a Republican assignment without
adopting a pro-life position – is a outcome of this rather tiny series of
groups that are doing – they don’t customarily go on radio and pronounce like they’re
in politics. They get endangered in a tough work of perplexing to assistance elect people
who determine with them and perplexing to un-elect a people who don’t.

So we would contend that if a success
of a life village in carrying an impact is beginning, in a kind of slow
shift, to pull some-more groups to domestic activity. we don’t wish to be too
self-promoting, nonetheless we consider a National Organization for Marriage’s success is
also secure in that we have a unequivocally transparent indication of approach domestic action,
either in flitting referenda that simulate a views, or in assisting to elect or
un-elect candidates, both during a state and a inhabitant level.

So we see a vast intensity upside
for influence, even as many have expected a diminution given a impact that
religious groups have had on open routine has been in a face of what we would
call unequivocally bad models for domestic change that rivet avoiding actual
political action. As we see that shift, we consider you’re going to see an increase
rather than a diminution in a change of religion-related advocacy, to use
Allen’s term, in open life.

COOPERMAN:  Thank you. That was unequivocally insightful. David
Saperstein, you’ve been during this a prolonged time. Care to critique on a strange question
and maybe also on bad models for advocacy?

:  First,
I too wish to appreciate Pew. This is an unusual entity. As somebody essay a
book called “Racing with God: The Use and Abuse of Religion in American
Elections,” a volume of hours they’ve saved me with this new
religion-in-the-election block of it is a godsend. we have low appreciation for
Allen Hertzke and a groundbreaking work that he’s finished about religious
advocacy in Washington here.

I wish to acknowledge a presence
of Rabbi Eric Yoffie, boss of a Union for Reform Judaism, the
congregational arm of a Reform Jewish Movement, arguably a many influential
rabbi in a country, and who’s finishing his prolonged reign as a boss at
our arriving entertainment here in Washington of 5,000 Jewish leaders from around
the nation entertainment together in mid-December.

The doubt had to do with a Bush
administration contra a Obama administration. Advocacy goes kind of dual ways.
We consider of it mostly as a outward towards a government. Clearly, a more
conservative groups in a Bush administration had poignant entrance in a way
that a mainline Protestant groups and some of a Jewish groups did not. I
think this administration is indeed one of a many permitted – if we want
to accommodate with someone – of all a administrations (I go behind to a Ford
administration) that I’ve worked with. So I’m elegant of that.

Also, we shouldn’t forget this in
terms of a attribute of supervision and a eremite community, it goes
the other approach as well. They wish support for their policies, and where they
know they have support for their policies, they wish – if we could use the
Jewish reign for a legitimizing kashrut – they wish a hechsher, a stamp of
approval, a kind of reliable imprimatur that they see eremite groups bringing
to their work. So unequivocally often, we don’t have to wait to have entrance to someone
in a administration or on Capitol Hill, they’re job us, given they want
us to be partial of it.

I would say, if we demeanour during some of
those conflicting groups – like your classification or Human Rights Campaign or People
For a American Way
– a lot of groups that are single-issue means groups
actually set adult eremite overdo entities to rivet a eremite village on
their sold emanate in a some-more orderly and effective approach than a religious
groups would’ve finished themselves. So all of these are pieces of a question
that we put before us.

Let me customarily take one notation some-more to
now step behind from a Bush administration, to go behind to a 1930s until today,
to pronounce about effectiveness. Religious groups are a quintessential multi-issue
organizations; denominations are a quintessential multi-issue organizations. As
a ubiquitous rule, when it comes to advocacy, on any one emanate they are lobbying
on, multi-issue groups will never be as effective as a single-issue organisation just
on that.

The rest of a Jewish village may
care deeply about Israel, be advocating on seductiveness of Israel’s security,
America’s values and seductiveness in a attribute with Israel all a time. But
AIPAC, operative customarily on this one issue, is always going to have a larger impact
than a others. When we also put a (c)(4) in and they have overtones to
elections and things in a mix, even some-more so it becomes an issue, nonetheless as
a (c)(4) they can’t directly be endangered in elections.

In a 1930s, a good bloc of
decency in America were a labor unions, a polite rights village – particularly
the NAACP – a mainline Christian community, including a Catholic community,
and a Jewish community. And that remained so until a ’70s. Think about your
big spike in a groups entrance up. That remained so until a ’70s.

In a ’70s, a success of the
civil rights transformation led all kinds of people who cared about issues to
realize, if we set adult a single-issue organization, it will do improved work. So
you had a splintering of all these single-issue groups in a religious
community – craving groups and women’s rights groups and a eremite coalition
on termination rights and a environmental groups here – all of these groups that
began to crush around single-issue things given they believed they would
be some-more effective than a Methodists or a Reform Jewish Movement or the
Catholic Church could be on any one emanate that they were operative on here.

And that helps explain some of the
escalation and a enlargement of a organizations that we see there. So we have
this communication of all these single-issue groups that are operative with the
existing multi-issue [groups], utterly a denominational inhabitant faith
group organizations themselves. Where are we effective? We’re effective when we
all occur to confirm – we don’t meant literally all, nonetheless there’s an overwhelming
consensus in a groups – let’s work together on this issue, if it’s an issue
that partially fewer people are operative on.

So any eremite village was
involved in a polite rights movement, in a Vietnam War, in a budget
debates going on now and a health caring debates. And they had some impact;
they helped give that stamp of legitimacy. But they weren’t wilful in those

But if we go to a other extreme
of a kind of issues that Allen talked about progressing – a Food for Peace
program in a mid-1970s, a International Religious Freedom Act (IRFA), the
Sudan Peace Act, a debt service issue, a Jubilee emanate here as a whole in which
the impact of a eremite village was wilful – and on a jail rape bill
and a North Korea act.

When we’re operative on issues others
aren’t and we all get together, we can unequivocally have a wilful impact, and we’re
far some-more effective in those kinds of cases. Single-issue groups do that by
definition. They concentration in on specific issues – we have to do it many more
arbitrarily. But where we do, thereafter we have a kind of impact that single-issue
organizations can have by creation it a single-issue effort. we suspicion I’d lay
out some of a criteria of efficiency over this to see where the
conversation goes.

COOPERMAN:  That was also unequivocally insightful, appreciate you. Thank
you, David. Rajdeep Singh, a relations newcomer. Your classification has been in
Washington how many years now?

RAJDEEP SINGH, SIKH COALITION:  The Sikh Coalition has been in existence for
about 10 years, and we’ve been in Washington full-time now for customarily about two
and a half years.

COOPERMAN:  So go ahead. Give us your take, please.

SINGH:  Right. First of all, I’d also like to extend
my thankfulness to a Pew Forum for mouth-watering us. It’s a payoff and a pleasure
to be here, and we wish that it can be an entrance indicate for some-more work with the
Sikh Coalition.

I unequivocally have unequivocally tiny to add. My
fellow panelists were unequivocally endless in their criticism of a grade to
which eremite advocacy organizations have change with honour to the
political process. I’d customarily like to supplement that seems to us that it’s a multivariable
calculus problem. In a sense, it’s a duty of a series of votes that
religious advocacy groups can generate, a series of electorate that they can
mobilize. It’s a duty of how many income they have in their pot with respect
to advocacy efforts.

It’s also a duty of a number
of people belonging to certain eremite groups who are on a inside, so to
say. There are unequivocally few Sikhs who reason inaugurated offices, and we consider this
dictates a grade to that a immature village such as a Sikh village can
influence a domestic process.

Often times, in a experience,
policies are enacted, promulgated, pronouncements are finished about a proper
balance between church and state, for example, in ways that consider that
Sikhs and other eremite minorities don’t exist, I’m contemptible to say. we consider to
the border that any eremite village doesn’t have illustration in the
political process, in a form of domestic candidates, for example, it is very
difficult, utterly for tiny eremite minority communities such as the
Sikh community, to pattern adult votes and income that can interpret into influence
with honour to a domestic process.

The approach that we magnitude success at
the Sikh Coalition is efficacy. We don’t have votes. We don’t have money. We
don’t have people on a inside, so to speak. And so we try unequivocally tough to build
coalitions with other eremite organizations and try to feat amicable media
and some new blood and imagination in sequence to pierce a issues forward.

Just for context, again, a Sikh
Coalition is 10 years old. We were founded on a night of 9/11. we listened one of
my associate panelists contend that – Rabbi Saperstein pronounced he was with a RAC as of
three decades ago. Three decades ago, we was grieving in a crib somewhere – (laughter)

Your ads will be inserted here by

AdSense Now! Pro.

Please go to the plugin admin page to paste your ad code.

GALLAGHER:  Stop bragging.

SINGH:  – training how to eat and talk.

But hopefully, in a generosity of
time, this will change, though; a design will change. we consider that the
tipping point, a indicate during that we strech a vicious mass, during slightest in the
Sikh community, will be when we have illustration in a domestic routine in
the form of domestic candidates. If we have a Sikh regulating for mayor or
governor or maybe even president, we consider a lot of a fortunes will brighten
at that point.

COOPERMAN:  Great. That was very, unequivocally enchanting to hear
from a panel, and I’m certain we’re going to hear some-more from all of them. Let’s
open it adult for questions, both from a reporters here in a room and those on
the phone.

 I’m wondering, given my audiences are
mainly abroad and we do have ubiquitous illustration here, I’d like to ask
whether this energetic of carrying all these eremite advocacy groups – we wish to
ask Allen – is a outcome of disestablishment in this country, of a separation
of church and state. And is it mocking that we indeed have some-more influence
from eremite groups in politics as a result? we don’t know if we can compare
it to how it works in other countries, possibly it’s in Madrid, where the
bishops do have a lot of influence, notwithstanding a secularization in that country.

I’d also like to ask Rabbi
Saperstein if, when politicians are seeking we for that acceptance or
blessing or hechsher, do we feel used during all? Those are my questions.

SAPERSTEIN:  No, in a following sense. There are times we
just have to contend no to somebody. Every once in a while we’re asked to get
involved in an emanate where we know that they customarily wish a stamp of approval
and it’s not an emanate we routinely get endangered with, or a take on it is different
and we’re not going to hook a position to accommodate that kind of request
any some-more than they would if we went to them to ask for them to conflict a certain
policy position or support a sold routine position. It’s a give-and-take
end of it.

The fact that they consider that it is
important in America for there to be a eremite imprimatur on a kind of
issue they’re doing, we think, is a healthy energetic and communication of religion
and politics in American life. Where we consider it becomes dangerous is when it
kind of degrades itself into a eremite exam for bureau when it comes to
candidates. But where it comes to policy, we don’t mind.

For those who follow a scholarly
literature about separationists and a John Rawls kind of take about what role
religion has here, we consider it’s excellent for people to give eremite motive and
justification for their policies so prolonged as they also give a physical rationale
as good given American democracy depends on being means to exam ideas in the
free marketplace of ideas. When we put brazen an argument, “God told me to do
it,” how do we exam that in a giveaway marketplace of ideas? When it is only, “I’m
religiously …” We’re going to have a discuss over a divinity behind that kind
of statement? That doesn’t get us anywhere in American life. But something
rooted in regulating sacrament as a kind of dignified reason for why, nonetheless then
putting it in physical terms that are permitted to all people in a free
marketplace of ideas – we consider it’s indispensable.

That, to me, by a way, was the
genius of a Bishops’ Pastoral Letters, that they talked about Catholic
doctrine nonetheless thereafter they put it out in healthy law terms as good that were
accessible to all, possibly they supposed Catholic doctrine or not. So we can
use it as an inspiration, as a dignified reasoning, nonetheless customarily as a sign that is
either constrained or not in a giveaway marketplace of ideas, and there you’ll
have a physical discuss of what’s going on.

So we consider that religion’s
engagement in open routine is both not customarily an authentic clarity of prophetic
witness that we have or, in my tradition, a judgment of being a light to the
nation, to try in tellurian terms to be a dignified impel to a demur of the
nations in that we live, nonetheless we consider it deeply enriches a routine discuss in
America, and we consider that’s good for America and good for a world.

HERTZKE:  To answer your question, we will answer it as a
scholar of sacrament and politics and eremite freedom, church-state law and so
forth, as opposite to as a author of this study. we consider there’s no question
that a eremite leisure guaranteed in America broadly facilitates a kind
of advocacy we’re observant here. Also, we consider a honesty of a American
political system, a accessibility of Congress, even in an age of heightened
security and screening and so heading – still, it facilitates a ability of
groups to have an impact. we consider that a fact that there is no investiture of
religion and eremite groups are guaranteed equivalence before a law, to the
extent we can grasp that, means that all are invited, in a sense, to make
their voices famous in a open square.

I wanted to offer, actually, a
little critique on Rajdeep’s presentation, that is that he’s a unequivocally medium guy,
and actually, we think, could legitimately have mentioned that small, emerging
groups that can pronounce to that musical emanate of eremite leisure can build
alliances and indeed increase their impact. The Sikh village collectively
was actually, in a face of forward airfield screenings, means to get TSA to
air a training video on a Sikh sacrament to all 45,000 airfield screeners,
impacting a lives of Sikh-Americans who have to go by airfield screening.
It seems to me that that’s an instance of appealing to a eremite tradition
in America, building allies and anticipating a sensitive cause. It can work.

COOPERMAN:  Rajdeep, did we wish to brawl that?

SINGH:  I brawl a assign of modesty. (Laughter.)

SAPERSTEIN:  Alan, customarily one judgment some-more on a separation
of church question. Functionally, a wall separating church and state tends to
be a one-way wall: It restrains government. It does tiny to restrain
religion. It allows sacrament not customarily to develop with robustness in America
because we’re gripping supervision especially out of sacrament here, nonetheless to fulfill
that auspicious declare we talked about. So we do consider that partial of the
explanation for given sacrament is such a strong – in a extended clarity – robust
presence in American life on these issues does have to do with a fact that freedom
of sacrament has to perform a possess self-identity in terms of that prophetic
witness in America.

:  Beyond salaries, what is this
money spent on? What are a biggest expenditures over profitable employees for
these arrange of advocacy organizations?

HERTZKE:  I’ll critique and thereafter I’ll let a others
comment who have some-more imagination on their specific budgets. we have indeed a
slide we used in a display of my possess that customarily has a buildings that some
of these groups have in Washington, D.C. – Family Research Council, AIPAC,
Friends Committee on National Legislation, United Methodist Building. Just
maintaining an bureau is expensive, and also progressing offices around the
country that support inhabitant advocacy. But I’ll let members tell us what you
spend income on. Salaries are a vast part. Go ahead.

GALLAGHER:  I theory that goes to my indicate that these are
really indeed utterly conflicting kinds of organizations, and for some of them – I
won’t name them – we consternation myself where a income is being spent. The think
tank indication is, basically, we change open routine by doing investigate and
coming adult with new legislative ideas and holding conferences and building
coalitions. we meant – this is not a Washington classification – nonetheless something like
the Manhattan Institute for Public Policy we consider has been, in New York, quite
an successful organization. This can be a unequivocally effective model.

Susan B. Anthony List gets involved
primarily in perplexing to elect candidates. we consider here it’s vicious to clear
up what a (c)(4) and a (c)(3) can do. With a Supreme Court preference in Citizens United, a 501(c)(4) can, in
fact, promulgate with electorate before an choosing directly, as prolonged as it
doesn’t coordinate with a candidate. This is what is referred to as
independent expenditures, and this is a indication that a National Organization
for Marriage uses. We spend a bulk of a income on possibly removing endangered in
actual referendum campaigns or removing endangered in a choosing processes that
lead to giving electorate a probability to opinion on a happy matrimony issue.

In a 2009-2010 choosing cycle, we
were indeed unequivocally endangered in both Minnesota and New Hampshire state
legislative races. we consider that contributes to a fact that Minnesotans will
be voting on possibly or not they will have a state fundamental amendment on
marriage. We got involved, and we spent a satisfactory volume of money.

For example, when a pro-gay marriage
Republican emerges, customarily a electorate are not unequivocally wakeful of it. So we’ve had
it as partial of a thought matter to denote that it’s a unequivocally bad idea
to be for happy marriage, during slightest if you’re a Republican. We would like to
extend that to both parties, nonetheless that’s where we are during this point.

SAPERSTEIN:  I would add, Elizabeth, that all of the
so-called eremite lobbies who paint churches and houses of ceremony across
the nation are constantly building amicable probity programs for them to do,
some of that competence have a routine member and some of that competence not. But when
we try to get any synagogue in America to be partial of a feeding module to the
hungry in a community, we competence also put in a communications that a food
stamp module is underneath outrageous vigour and we wish people will write to their
congressman or congresswoman on it and to their state and internal legislators, as
well, on seductiveness of food programs.

It competence be an subordinate partial of what
this is all about. We competence have a whole primer on how to put together a hunger
program that’s effective in that synagogue or in that village – how to build
coalitions to put together craving programs – and this competence be an subordinate part
of it. Some of those altogether costs are accounted for in a approach Allen did it. If
you’re looking by a filter of advocacy, it’s satisfactory to do that.

But for a approach we look, a lot of
that is providing preparation and programming that in some cases doesn’t have the
policy member to it, and in some cases a routine partial is kind of an add-on.
If we caring about this issue, we not customarily have to understanding with treating the
symptoms, nonetheless we have to understanding with a routine that is a means of it as well,
etc. So some of a lines between these are different.

But preparation and module work,
conferences, training seminars on a issues, all of that would be a vast part
of a approach that this is assembled in terms of those budgets. PR, media work,
a lot of that would be partial of this as well.

WENDY KAMINER, THEATLANTIC.COM:  I have a integrate of questions for Professor
Hertzke, and thereafter if there’s time and if you’ll indulge me, a integrate of brief
comments on what Maggie Gallagher has said, that I’m customarily not going to pretend
to spin into questions.

One, we was meddlesome that you
included AIPAC in this list given we don’t consider of AIPAC as an organization
that’s lobbying on eremite issues. we consider of it as a Zionist organization. I’m
not regulating that word pejoratively, nonetheless we customarily see that unequivocally differently from a
religious organization. So I’d be meddlesome in contention your meditative on that.

Secondly, as we was listening to you
talk about a approach people in these eremite organizations consider of themselves
and news themselves, we was contention a lot of a same things that we would
say about physical not-for-profit advocacy groups – they don’t call themselves
lobbyists, they call themselves advocates, they are some-more and some-more endangered in
global issues – we mean, we could run down a list.

So I’m wondering if we can separate
out things that are sold to eremite lobbying groups, or if they’re just
partaking in ubiquitous trends – if a eremite lobbying groups are being in
some approach substantively altered by a ubiquitous trends or if they’re contributing
to ubiquitous changes. we know these are tough things to provoke out, so I’d be
interested in your thoughts on them.

I customarily wanted to critique fast on
what Maggie Gallagher pronounced about antithesis to termination rights and to same-sex
marriage being counsel eremite and support for those same things not being
considered religious. While it competence not be loyal in your survey, we do consider that
is generally true, and it’s an enchanting point.

It competence seductiveness we to know that a
lot of people in a physical transformation unequivocally onslaught with this. Should they
take on support for termination rights? Should they take on support for same-sex
marriage? The answer for a lot of people is no. Because, while there are strong
religious components to opposition, there are also dubious people who
oppose termination rights and conflict same-sex matrimony – maybe a smaller series of
them, nonetheless it’s not exclusively a eremite issue.

I also wanted to critique fast on
your acknowledgement that Americans are not generally antagonistic to a brew of sacrament and
public life. we consider that’s positively true. But we consider it’s unequivocally important
to heed a approach people feel about sacrament and open life, and church
and state. There, a attitudes count on whose church is interfering with
which state.

HERTZKE:  Well, a initial doubt is easier to take on.
In this investigate we demeanour during eremite lobbying and what we call religion-related
advocacy. We did, in fact, delicately demeanour during AIPAC and other groups like it. I
can pledge we that a leaders of AIPAC would contend they’re not a religious
organization, that they have extended membership, physical members and so forth.

On a other hand, if we demeanour at
their principal objective, persuading American policymakers to support the
state of Israel – and, they say, a Jewish state of Israel – in other words,
supporting a Jewish state of Israel we would impersonate as a
religion-related advocacy program. In other words, it’s not fortifying a secular
state of Israel in a sense; it’s fortifying a Jewish homeland. And to the
extent that Jewish groups – many of them – see that as an vicious partial of
their bulletin – ancillary a Zionist plan – we would also see that as part
of AIPAC. So that’s given we embody it.

On a emanate of possibly religious
groups are distinctive, we consider it is accurate to contend they’re partial of general
trends – globalization, a nonprofit universe and so forth. we consider – and here
I’m vocalization some-more as a academician and reduction in terms of what we benefaction in the
study given that’s a formidable doubt to answer in a investigate like this. If
you review a thought statements of many of these organizations, they see their
activities issuing from their deepest faith commitments.

So if we review a mission
statements of a accumulation of groups – Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian,
Catholic, evangelical, etc., you’ll see statements about their faith and how
they feel mandated, shaped on that faith, to rivet in work for justice,
rights and so forth. Is that distinctive? Given a pervasive religiosity of
the American public, we consider that is sold given it potentially
mobilizes lots some-more people.

Religious communities are a most
common form of fasten in America, in terms of a groups people go to. So
in that sense, they competence be means to strech over into a grass-roots. But is
their impression unique? Religious groups will tell you, we feel we’re different
because we pierce a singular eremite dignified perspective, nonetheless some physical groups
see a same. It’s a tough thing to answer. I’ll try to do that in a book I
write after this.

MICHELLE BOORSTEIN, THE WASHINGTON POST:  I customarily wanted to ask a panelists – if I
understood Ms. Gallagher right, we pronounced we suspicion that there’s something
like a hesitance to be endangered in approach politics, right? So we wanted to see,
if we accepted that right, if we guys could critique on that – if we think
that’s true, that there is a hesitance to be endangered in approach political
activities, and if so, why? we don’t know that many people would necessarily
assume that eremite groups are hesitant. So if that’s true, why?

And thereafter secondly, we wanted to see
if any of we could fast give an example, some kind of story that could
bring this whole business to life, that could tell us of something where
religious groups had an change and given – even customarily a brief kind of picture
of what that’s like – or a time when we attempted to change and didn’t.

GALLAGHER:  First of all, we note that in a investigate of
religious advocacy by a smashing scholar, customarily 7% of a groups contend they are
engaged in electoral politics. And customarily 8% emanate congressional scorecards,
which a 501(c)(3) can indeed do, so it’s not a constructional reason given they
don’t do that. we consider I’m recalling a numbers correctly.

I would customarily contend it’s my
observation, as a regressive who’s been endangered in politics given a ’80s,
that many of a quasi-political organizations shaped as a liquid of
evangelicals in sold into politics – what used to be called a Moral Majority.
That all happened in a late ’70s and a ’80s, substantially initial as the
prominence of a termination emanate began a contemporary enlightenment wars.

Most of those shaped institutions
that are 501(c)(3) nonprofits that are singular in what they can do politically.
So given that there’s a open face that suggests a thought is to influence
politics, it’s curious, during least, that so many of a institutional structures
that they shaped were 501(c)(3)s, that are not authorised to rivet in political
action directly. we consider it’s a matter of fact that amicable conservatives have
not been endangered in formulating institutional structures that can and naturally
do rivet in domestic activity.

As for why, we do consider that – I
speak as a Roman Catholic, nonetheless many of my best friends are evangelicals – I
think that there is a sense, that is not unconditionally wrong, that we wish to
maintain a virginity of your sacrament – that politics is a unwashed business,
basically, and it leads to indignant and nasty, ardent exchanges, and it’s
involved with income conversion politics. There’s customarily a arrange of clarity that the
sacredness of what happens in eremite spaces doesn’t brew simply with a idea
of removing into a nitty-gritty of politics. And we consider there’s an argument
for that.

But what that leaves out is, if
you’re going to have as a thought – if we trust you’re called to contend that every
human life deserves insurance from a impulse of source – if you’re going
to get endangered publicly in an emanate that is, in fact, going to be motionless in
part by a domestic process, we are going to be singular in your
influence until and unless we confirm to find a approach to rivet politically

You can put it in a negative,
right? Directly enchanting in politics is something that eremite conservatives
really have, we think, been demure to do. The certain means that there is a
lot of upside for intensity influence. There are also downsides to being
involved in politics. It’s customarily one partial of a tellurian endeavor.

SAPERSTEIN:  On a hesitation issue, we find it really
depends whose ox is being gored. Most Abrahamic faiths trust that speaking
out on open routine issues is partial of a auspicious declare that people have. It’s
the minority in any faith organisation or a people outward a faith organisation who don’t
like their positions, who will come behind with: Stick to religion. Don’t get
involved in politics.

And people say, well, did the
prophets not see vocalization out on open routine issues being during a core of
their eremite obligation? Isn’t that what we’re about? When you’re in the
minority, unequivocally mostly we use a argument, stay divided from politics. When you’re
in a majority, we see it as partial of your eremite mission. we don’t meant to
be asocial about this, nonetheless we find some-more mostly than not, on both sides, that’s
what’s happened.

In terms of a conservative
religious groups and a magnanimous eremite groups, if we remember what we said
about a ’30s to a ’60s, many people did their work by their churches. And
after we fragmented into all these single-issue organizations – some religious
but mostly physical – many people finished adult doing a work by those secular
organizations on a issues. They didn’t need us anymore.

But if we demeanour during all those public
interest groups on this whole operation of issues, who are a people who are the
staffs? Who are a people who are a donors? Who are a people who are a board
members? They’re members of a churches and synagogues on all these – let’s
say, on a magnanimous finish of this. we consider that to some extent, a more
conservative and fundamentalist groups currently are where we were 40 years ago.

A tradition had been, utterly among
the Baptist groups, not to get endangered in politics for a prolonged duration of time. In
the 1970s when they satisfied that they couldn’t strengthen their kids, their
communities, from a outward influences of a Supreme Court and a media
that brought messages into a lives of their children, they said, we’ve got to
go and change a outward world. And so they got intent in politics, and for
these initial 30 years, have finished it radically by their churches.

But as regressive groups have begun
to collect off a energies and resources and income and time and volunteerism of
the folks in these churches, you’re going to see a same kind of energetic over
the subsequent 30 years of their commencement to pierce some-more and some-more outward a churches
to do their domestic work, nonetheless fundamentalists of one kind or another
tend to do some-more of their lives by their houses of ceremony in general. So
it’s not an accurate parallel, nonetheless we consider you’ll see a same kind of dynamic

In terms of a story, we could pick
any of a things we alluded to. we consider a good story of a final generation
has been a Jubilee movement. Economists had talked about debt service for
decades. A lot of routine evidence was finished for it, and when a religious
communities, attack a year 2000, began to pierce into a public
consciousness this suspicion of a Jubilee year, a termination of debts as being
a surpassing dignified requirement that people had, it unequivocally helped expostulate the
argument in a unequivocally low and surpassing way. It gave it a domestic traction that
it didn’t have otherwise, and it remade a debate. So we consider it’s one of
the good success stories and shows what happens when we give a powerful
religious imagery.

Now, we don’t have to trust in
the Bible to get a dignified appetite of it. It’s an evidence we infrequently have with
some fundamentalists when we’re articulate about expansion and things. They
believe in a some-more singular God. we trust in a God that can pronounce in allegory. I
think there’s a dignified summary to that imagery, a biblical judgment of Jubilee,
that we don’t have to be a follower in a Bible to commend a dignified power
of it. And it works as a kind of musical argument, dignified argument, that I
think unequivocally was transformative on this debate.

I could give we others too. The IRFA
bill, a sex trafficking bill, a Sudan check we consider are good examples of
this, nonetheless we unequivocally consider a Jubilee one is a many powerful.

BOORSTEIN:  Can we follow adult for one second, customarily really

HERTZKE:  Yeah, thereafter I’ll clarify.

BOORSTEIN:  You seem to be similar on this criticism that
the amicable conservatives are in a enlargement phase. we meant – and maybe this is
the reduction of this kind of investigate – if we demeanour during a biggest expenditures,
I consider during slightest 5 of them are amicable Christian regressive groups. we don’t
know if that’s customarily given that’s a outrageous partial of a country. It customarily seems
like it arrange of contradicts with – we know, to whatever grade fundraising
reflects people’s values, it looks like amicable conservatives are unequivocally in
the locus and advocating and lobbying. Maybe you’re articulate about something
slightly different. Am we creation any sense?

HERTZKE:  Let me explain one thing, and thereafter I’ll let
maybe Maggie take this. There’s a disproportion here, and I’ve seen it in my
interviews as well, between a kind of auspicious declare that David is talking
about – open routine advocacy – and campaigns and elections strategies. That
is a outrageous distinction. If we pronounce with eremite leaders here in Washington
and elsewhere, they pull a sharp, splendid line between advocating for public
policy concerns, being a auspicious witness, testifying on a Hill, writing
position papers contra removing endangered in campaigns and elections, which
churches can't do legally – denominations can't do – and also, many religious
groups eschew given they see it as divisive, as customarily not something they’re
comfortable with theologically.

SAPERSTEIN:  And there are some on a right that would
argue that point. They’ve taken a position of element that those manners that
you’re articulate about, that make it illegal, stifle leisure of a pulpit. There’s
a good discuss to be had about it, nonetheless we consider as a normative description, what
Allen pronounced is passed on. We’ve all kind of drawn a line during that point.

GALLAGHER:  Again, a liquid of evangelicals into
American politics that began in a ’70s – it’s apparently been a vast movement
and it’s had a vast impact. Even with a unequivocally extended construction of advocacy, we’re
pulling in a unequivocally tiny suit of groups. we don’t know how many of those 7%,
or 8%, if we count congressional scorecards, do things that are commonly
understood as political, that we conclude narrowly as attempting to elect male A
or un-elect guy/girl B. Some of those competence not be partial of a eremite right. I
don’t know who they are, nonetheless we know that customarily a unequivocally tiny, tiny handful of
groups that we here in Washington would consider of as a investiture figures
for amicable conservatives. Then we go behind and we demeanour during a institutions
that they have created, and they are mostly 501(c)(3)s, that are limited.

I beheld this. we don’t know if this
is a story, nonetheless one of a reasons we founded a National Organization for
Marriage is that we had a kind of front-row chair on debates over a sovereign marriage
amendment behind when that was an issue. we was radically a author all my life; it
was unequivocally late to assistance found an romantic organization. President Bush came out
in 2006, a second time around, and had a press contention announcing he was
supporting a sovereign matrimony amendment. There was a opinion in a Senate. You
needed 60 votes; we knew we wouldn’t get that.

So there was a contention among
groups thereafter about how to respond if a opinion was X, if a opinion was Y. I
raised my tiny palm and we said, well, it’s June. There’s an choosing in
November. How about we find a senator who voted poorly from a indicate of view
and see if we can un-elect him?

I was struck given everybody seemed
to consider that that was a unequivocally enchanting idea, nonetheless they seemed to consider it was
a unequivocally strikingly new idea. So now you’re articulate about carrying a opinion for the
second time on an emanate you’re not going to pass, right? Why in a universe would
you ask a Senate to opinion on legislation that we can’t pass? There is only
one good answer: given we intend to use that, and in a counsel fashion,
to elect some-more of your friends or to uncover people who conflict we that opposing
your position is a bad idea.

I realized, on reflection, that it’s
not that a people in a room were not intelligent and competent. It’s that
they had ministries primarily, and this is customarily not what they do. And if
there’s customarily one organisation on a margin in a rougher diversion of politics, eventually,
that organisation is going to win.

So anyway, that’s my brief story on
my viewpoint that not everybody has to be endangered in politics, nonetheless if you
are going to explain to wish to be endangered in politics and advancing policy, you
need to build domestic institutions to accomplish your goals, in my view. That
doesn’t meant that everybody should, and we consider it would be inapt for
many eremite denominations to do what an classification like NOM does in a
direct fashion.

COOPERMAN:  Rajdeep, let’s hear from you.

SINGH:  All right. On a hesitation issue, no. Sikhs,
as a matter of a eremite mandate, are unequivocally fervent to attend civically. Obviously,
there are constraints on nonprofits in terms of what we can and can't do in
this realm. But as a community, Sikhs are go-getters. This is in a character.
This is in a DNA. And as we suggested earlier, a wish is that over time you
will see some-more Sikhs participating some-more visibly in a domestic routine in this
country, precisely given it is secure in a tradition to be civically

I’d like to tell we about a project
that we undertook in a final integrate of years, that indeed had a happy
ending. You asked about stories, right? Let me give we a feel-good story. In
the state of Oregon, it was bootleg for open schoolteachers for a final 90
years to wear any kind of eremite dress in a classroom. This law was
enacted in 1923 or around thereafter by supporters of a Ku Klux Klan. Its effect
was to bar during that time Catholics from open schools. But over time Sikhs,
Muslims, mindful Jews were impacted as well.

So a Sikh village spearheaded an
effort in 2009 to get that law repealed, and we were successful. But it would
not have happened yet a support of a far-reaching operation of eremite communities –
Christians, Jews, Muslims and so forth. So that’s a feel-good story. But for
every feel-good story, there are 5 unhappy stories that we could tell we about.

Very quickly, I’d like to tell you
that we’re endeavour efforts right now in bloc with a series of civil
rights organizations – about 30, including a integrate dozen religious
organizations – to get a EEOC, a Equal Employment Opportunity Commission,
to explain that Title VII of a Civil Rights Act of 1964 indeed prohibits
segregation of visibly eremite employees in a workplace. Perversely, some
courts in this nation in a final 10 years have reason that it is perfectly
legal and unchanging with Title VII of a Civil Rights Act to segregate
visibly eremite employees from business in a ubiquitous open in a name of
corporate image. This story is unfolding; we’re not certain nonetheless possibly we’re
going to accommodate with success.

We’re also perplexing to get the
Department of Defense to change a policies so that Sikhs can serve
presumptively in a U.S. armed army with their articles of faith intact. Again,
perversely in a views, Sikhs are not presumptively authorised to offer in the
U.S. armed forces. This is a right that other people in this nation enjoy
presumptively, nonetheless Sikhs and other visibly eremite minorities do not. That
story, again, is unfolding.

I can go on and on and would love,
actually, to pronounce with we during length about some of a other projects that
we’re undertaking, nonetheless in a seductiveness of time, I’ll stop there.

BEATRIZ JUEZ, PUBLICO:  I am from a Spanish journal Publico. I
would like to ask a some-more ubiquitous question. Taking into criticism all this
religious lobbying in Washington and a significance of sacrament in American
life, do we consider that it’s unequivocally formidable or unfit for a presidential
candidate to turn boss if he’s dubious or atheist? Is this impossible,
or – what do we think?

HERTZKE:  As a good Pew researcher, I’ll contend that’s
beyond a operation of this study. But as a academician of faith and politics, we think
it’s doubtful in a nearby future.

SAPERSTEIN:  The polls are flattering transparent that if we ask
people, will they opinion for someone of sold eremite persuasion, atheists
rank during a bottom. Only a minority of Americans will support such a
presidential candidate. If we had an inaugurated central who indeed publicly
said he or she was an atheist, after a duration of time it would change. we think
exposure – we know this from studies about happy and lesbian rights; we know it
about Mormons – leads to some-more acceptance. The some-more informed people are with people
– if an non-believer presidential claimant came up, and it came out that 10% or 12%
of people are atheists nonetheless have been gripping still about it, their neighbors
would start articulate about it, and you’d comprehend there would be a new comfort
level. It would change. But right now, it’s unequivocally doubtful that someone who is a
professed non-believer would be means to make it politically.

COOPERMAN:  Beatriz, a Pew brothers and sisters during a Pew Research Center for a People the
have finished some polling,
and we can uncover it to we afterwards. Essentially, a doubt that’s been
asked is, if a claimant were X, would we be reduction expected to opinion for that
candidate, some-more likely, or wouldn’t it make a difference? And a X is filled
in by a accumulation of conflicting characteristics, some of that many electorate treat
as positives, and some of that many electorate provide as negatives.

So something that many electorate seem
to provide as a certain – for example, would we be some-more expected to opinion for
someone who has served in a military? More people contend they would be more
likely to opinion for that chairman than contend they’d be reduction likely. If we ask,
would we be some-more expected or reduction expected to opinion for someone who’s had an
extramarital affair, many electorate will tell you, reduction likely. Would we be more
likely or reduction expected to opinion for someone who’s ever smoked marijuana? Would
you be some-more expected or reduction expected to opinion for someone who is a Mormon? And so
on. we can tell we that some of a top negatives were on a question: would
you be some-more or reduction expected to opinion for someone who is an non-believer – someone who
does not trust in God, we believe, was indeed a approach a doubt was

There is some other associated polling
that we have on that question. I’ll also indicate out to we that a Pew Forum
has finished an analysis
of a eremite combination of a U.S. Congress
, and there is currently in
the U.S. Congress one concurred atheist, Rep. Pete Stark from California. And
he is a initial inaugurated member of Congress, in complicated times during least, to be an
acknowledged atheist. So as a poignant point, it’s not unfit for someone to
be elected.

One some-more discerning point: the
Constitution of a United States says that there is no eremite test. So
there is positively no authorised separator to a choosing of an atheist. What we’re
talking about are a domestic barriers.

GALLAGHER:  I customarily would supplement we indeed consider it’s more
possible, maybe, than others think, supposing that was a chairman who would
respect a rite purpose of sacrament in open life in a United States. I
think many people would contend they wouldn’t opinion for a male who had an
extramarital affair, nonetheless given a choice between dual conflicting candidates,
that competence infer reduction vicious to tangible voters.

We have “in God we trust” on our
coins; in moments of predicament like 9/11, we sing “God Bless America.” we think
there is a sincerely low renouned connection to that clarity that – and that people
find it intensely comforting. And so we would consider somebody who wanted to
make a indicate of his atheism would find it unequivocally difficult.

I don’t know how eremite Richard
Nixon was or Gerald Ford or – it was indeed with Jimmy Carter, or even Ronald
– no, nonetheless he was positively a vast disciple of a rite county religion
and carrying faith, nonetheless he was not a church-goer. we consider there’s some-more room for
people who are not utterly eremite to be inaugurated to bureau than most
people competence think.

:  Basically, dual tiny technical
questions. Maggie lifted a doubt progressing about HRC and possibly or not you
included them. How did we confirm that physical groups to include? we mean, like
the ACLU – did we embody them? we don’t see a list of all 212 groups, but
where was that line drawn?

And then, a arrange of related
question: Did we cover or does anyone have any thoughts about eremite groups
who are maybe on a same side of a eremite emanate nonetheless on conflicting sides of
a open policy? I’m meditative of Catholic bishops contra Catholic nuns on
health care, or Orthodox Jews contra Reform Jews in happy marriage, or something
like that. Did we get into that during all? Or is there anybody here who has any
thoughts on a eremite order within communities?

HERTZKE:  On a latter question, positively we can see
by a list of groups and their thought statements that there are Catholic
groups that conflict any other on a emanate of abortion, for example, that
evangelical groups remonstrate on a sourroundings in some cases. There’s a Cornwall
contra a Evangelical
Environmental Network
. In fact, one of a reasons, perhaps, for enlargement of
some of these groups is a enterprise to simulate a conflicting position than others.
I would contend that would be a kind of thing that we could find by digging into
the names of a groups, their thought statements. You can flattering clearly see
who’s antagonistic whom on certain kinds of issues.

Your other doubt about sketch a
line is a severe one, and we consider that over time we competence identify
groups that we wish to include. The ACLU, we have learned, has a tiny religion
program, that competence validate it for inclusion. [The ACLU’s Freedom of Religion
and Belief Program was one of 5 groups combined to a investigate when a report
was updated in May 2012.] The ACLU itself has a many broader agenda, obviously.
But generally we enclosed groups that had a poignant eremite constituency
or were intent in poignant religion-related advocacy. The constituency
would be one reason given we also enclosed AIPAC. There’s a poignant religious
constituency there. But there were some excellent lines to be drawn, and we think
people can demeanour during that and say, we consider we should embody this group.

ECKSTROM:  Is a list
of all 200-some groups on a website?


COOPERMAN:  Just as a serve indicate of clarification, a Human
Rights Campaign has a sold group. Do we remember what it’s called?

HERTZKE:  It’s a Religion and Faith Program of the
Human Rights Campaign. They indeed have a specific program, so we include
that as one of a groups.

COOPERMAN:  Then Kevin also asked about physical groups,
and we consider we infrequently have finished a eminence about groups that occur to
be nonreligious contra groups that take an specifically physical indicate of viewpoint on
public policy.

HERTZKE:  Right. The Secular Coalition for America or
the American Humanist Association see themselves as intent in antagonistic what
they trust is an unfavourable eremite bulletin or eremite issues and so forth. They
self-consciously or specifically conclude themselves, we competence say, in opposition
to a eremite agenda. So we embody a Secular Coalition and a American
Humanists, nonetheless not a Environmental Defense Fund, that we could contend – David’s
probably right; there are a lot of eremite people endangered in that, secular
people involved. But that’s not what we did in a study.

COOPERMAN:  Since I’m endangered in this as well, I’ll just
acknowledge that these are gray areas. There’s no ideal definition, and in
some cases, we consider we or anybody who does such a investigate is in a difficult
position. Wendy asked progressing about AIPAC. Clearly, her eyebrows were lifted by
the inclusion of AIPAC. we consider that had AIPAC not been enclosed in a study
on religion-related advocacy in Washington, D.C., some eyebrows also would have
been raised.

KEVIN CLARKE, AMERICAN MAGAZINE:  This competence be outward a parameters of your
study nonetheless we kind of glom together a far-reaching border of eremite organizations. Do
you see any poignant differences between how, say, on-going religious
bodies and amicable regressive bodies work in a inlet of their advocacy
or a lobbying, or is it customarily a eminence that some are some-more comfortable
being approach lobbyists, during hard-knuckle politics, and some are, we don’t know,
soft appetite advocates, rivet some-more in educational activities?


HERTZKE:  I will let maybe a panelists offer their
insights on this. we don’t consider we could make any judgments from a Pew study
about patterns given there positively are amicable regressive groups that are
much like on-going groups in a approach they operate. And as Maggie Gallagher
has noted, a series of a amicable conservatives are equally uncomfortable
engaging in campaigns and elections as some of a denominations – progressive
or conservative.

SAPERSTEIN:  I’m going behind to my single-issue/multi-issue discussion.
Where someone feels a presence emanate or an emanate of a comprehensive core principle
is involved, they’re going to be some-more noisy in their advocacy, where it
goes over customarily dignified suasion to unequivocally suggest: you’re going to order a
large shred of a village that we paint come a subsequent election.

Right now in a American political
configuration, a lot of a appetite is on a amicable issues when it comes to
conservative churches. They see them as issues of such core element that they’re
often operative with single-issue physical groups or even some-more sincerely electoral
political groups on a spectrum to make certain their voice is heard. The
differences between a churches and a groups operative on amicable issues can get
a tiny confused to a people receiving their messages, even nonetheless neither
the churches nor a groups violate any of a manners conflicting electioneering. The
difference gets vaporous as to where a lines are drawn between them when they
make it transparent that there’s going to be a effect – that we can't keep the
support of my shred of a village in your subsequent discuss if we order us
on this core issue.

For Jews, Israel clearly is such an
issue. And anti-Semitism, if somebody has been mindful anti-Semitic remarks. For
the black churches in America, polite rights and anti-black injustice would fit the
issue. For a mainline churches – right now, everyone’s focused on a budget
issue and caring for a poor. Whether or not they will attain in giving that
the kind of traction as a Jubilee
, as we go by a unpleasant check debates we’re going through
in this country, stays to be seen. That’s what they’re mobilizing around.

But other than that, there’s nothing
right now of a same kind of traction, where a Presbyterians can say, if you
vote wrong on this, you’re going to order many of a people of my church
group. we consider that’s a detailed comment, not a prescriptive comment. At
different times in story – a polite rights fights – they could contend that,
make those kinds of assertions, during slightest for a non-Southern components of
their community.

But in a lessen and upsurge of American
political and informative life right now, many of that single-issue core passion –
you will order us in a approach that we can't reason us – politically is coming
from a right in American politics. So we consider descriptively there is a
difference right now, Kevin. we don’t consider it’s fundamental in magnanimous versus

HERTZKE:  We do offer an investigate of eremite tradition
and organizational structure. It’s not utterly a same as your
liberal/conservative divide, nonetheless we do see patterns. In other words, Catholics
tend to emanate and are represented a lot by institutions; evangelical
organizations and Muslim groups and Jewish groups by membership-based
organizations; a mainline Protestants by denominations. So there are certain
patterns that do emerge that are sold opposite these eremite traditions.

GALLAGHER:  This is customarily an uninformed observation, nonetheless it
feels to me like one of a differences is that eremite progressives tend to
feel like they’re arrange of an afterthought tagged on to a especially secular
enterprise – we don’t know given – since NOM is functionally a secular
organization, nonetheless it’s being driven – a people who caring about this emanate a
lot are radically religious.

That competence simulate my stupidity of the
religious left compared to a eremite right. we positively don’t know it as
well. But that also competence advise that there’s some upside intensity for
religious progressives given right now it seems like some-more of a PR
afterthought to an radically physical left movement. So maybe if religious
progressives come to find their categorical voice that distinguishes them, we might
see that changing. we offer that customarily as a bystander. That could be wrong. But
maybe that’s partial of what’s going on.

COOPERMAN:  Terrific. That’s been a good display by
Allen Hertzke, superb row – David Saperstein, Maggie Gallagher and Rajdeep
Singh. Thank we all unequivocally much. Thank you, everybody, for staying with us. And
for those of we who are on a line, appreciate we so many for listening as well. Remember,
you can find us all online during pewforum.org,
including a list of
212 groups, their thought statements and brief profiles. Thank we unequivocally much.

This twin was edited by Amy Stern for clarity, accuracy
and grammar.

Your ads will be inserted here by

AdSense Now! Pro.

Please go to the plugin admin page to paste your ad code.